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GavinLS2 64M
1185 posts
4/22/2019 9:02 pm
What I can't see.


Hi folks

Just had a thought that inspired me, and I feel like expressing it. It is said that God can't exist because we can't see Him.

So my question is: Does love exist?

GBU all,

Gavin


GavinLS2 64M
1495 posts
4/22/2019 9:03 pm


MrsJoe 72F
10910 posts
4/22/2019 10:11 pm

Or what about air?

If you don't expect anything from anybody......You won't be disappointed.


deborahsu2 79F  
3228 posts
4/22/2019 10:12 pm

God is love! I would be very very afraid if I ever had the thought that God does not exist..


Katie_au_lait 73F
6551 posts
4/23/2019 1:52 am

    Quoting MrsJoe:
    Or what about air?
Air is largely invisible, since it is composed of molecules, oxygen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, argon and water vapor when it is moving it has momentum and you feel the momentum transfer when it hits you in the form of a breeze. If you have a device that converts that force to a physical variable: a near frictionless fan, or a very light flap, or a windsock then you can measure the moving air with an observable variable.

What is very observable, is that without air, nothing can live. That's an incontrovertable fact.


DitsyGal2018 66F

4/23/2019 2:26 am

Love does exist....and it comes in all shapes and sizes....and has Four Paws


Archer62 78F
4395 posts
4/23/2019 2:26 am

GAVIN, the fact is you cannot physically see most concepts but you can see love in many ways. World events however seem to make God less evident in this day and age.


GavinLS2 64M
1495 posts
4/23/2019 4:46 am

TY folks who have responded so far. I probably should have added that God cannot be experienced with any of our 5 physical senses. Nonetheless I am of the opinion that we can "feel" him within our hearts and minds.

Further, we cannot scientifically "deduce" the existence of love, but very people deny it exists.

GBU all,

Gavin


GavinLS2 replies on 4/23/2019 4:53 am:
Correction: Very few people deny love exists.

GavinLS2 64M
1495 posts
4/23/2019 4:51 am

    Quoting Katie_au_lait:
    Air is largely invisible, since it is composed of molecules, oxygen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, argon and water vapor when it is moving it has momentum and you feel the momentum transfer when it hits you in the form of a breeze. If you have a device that converts that force to a physical variable: a near frictionless fan, or a very light flap, or a windsock then you can measure the moving air with an observable variable.

    What is very observable, is that without air, nothing can live. That's an incontrovertable fact.

Hi Katie! TY for commenting.

I hope u take a glance at my post above wherein I discussed all 5 physical senses.

I'd also mention that there are some organisms that can live without air. Some even without oxygen. But you're right about most of them --They need access to air, or at least a source of oxygen.

GBU,

Gavin


GavinLS2 64M
1495 posts
4/23/2019 4:56 am

    Quoting MrsJoe:
    Or what about air?
Hi Joe and Mrsjoe!

I agree with your comment here, but I think that point has been made very often in the past. But TY for commenting, and especially because it demonstrated why I needed to add my comment about all 5 sense.

GBU,

Gavin


looklook 79M
2803 posts
4/23/2019 5:30 am

Yes Gavin, love does exist but it can't be seen, only felt.
Here below posted are the first four lines of my favorite song:
Quote The lonely mind in an empty room
When it gets lonelier
Her warm touch
Heats up my fever! Unquote


Know then thyself, presume not God to scan; The proper study of mankind is man.


GavinLS2 replies on 4/23/2019 7:35 am:
Nice!

sparkleflit 71F
4712 posts
4/23/2019 9:22 am

The argument is not that God cannot be detected by our 5 senses, but by any of the many other scientific means of detection at our disposal. Like you said before, God is a concept, as is love. Love is an umbrella emotion ....a complex emotion that is dependent on our brains........You can get as hyperbolic and sentimental as you want, but what we call "Love" would not exist without our brains.

Love as a concept is different in every culture. I remember being confused when I I first encountered the English language, because it had only one word for such a complex idea and emotion......Other languages I had encountered before and after that initial introduction to English, have many words for Love. I always wondered about that.......There are certainly differences in the feelings we have towards our children, our "lovers" our spouses, our pets, nature, art, music, an idea ,god.....etc.....but in English, it's all put in the same pile.....love.


GavinLS2 replies on 4/24/2019 3:11 am:
You raise some very interesting points! TY for sharing them here!

Here are some more questions we might ponder:

Can love be scientifically detected?

And another question: Is love really different in each case, or is it not that the parameters of our expectations about our interactions and/or relationship with each beloved thing that is different?

I'm gonna try to find a definition of love that I first heard from Skariff, which is a quote by a famous author. Unfortunately I can't recall it specifically now as I'm writing this, nor the author. I liked it a lot tho. In general, it described love as an irresistable compulsion to watch and assist if possible, and take pleasure in the developing spirituality (not necessarily religious) and overall well being of the beloved item or person.

But here's a definition I came up with on my own a few years ago: "Love is the recognition and appreciation of something outside ourselves, such that we feel better about ourselves for the experience."

You've added some interesting things to consider to this convo. TY for sharing

Best wishes,

Gavin

sparkleflit 71F
4712 posts
4/24/2019 9:31 am

Yes, love can be scientifically detected.The area of the brain that is stimulated when we feel love has been pin-pointed and there are scans that clearly show when there is activity in that area.........

"And another question: Is love really different in each case, or is it not that the parameters of our expectations about our interactions and/or relationship with each beloved thing that is different?"

What's the difference?......Emotions are a combination of feelings and thoughts.....We have named and defined and categorized our experiences...each culture has a slightly different set of categories and labels.

There is no fixed standard where Human emotions are concerned, we can only surmise......What one person calls love is not the same as another calls love.........We know there is pleasure involved.......Humans have been defining love for our whole history......We have created poems, songs and paintings.....and created thousands of allegorical gods to represent love....each of them different..........


GavinLS2 64M
1495 posts
4/24/2019 2:46 pm

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    Yes, love can be scientifically detected.The area of the brain that is stimulated when we feel love has been pin-pointed and there are scans that clearly show when there is activity in that area.........

    "And another question: Is love really different in each case, or is it not that the parameters of our expectations about our interactions and/or relationship with each beloved thing that is different?"

    What's the difference?......Emotions are a combination of feelings and thoughts.....We have named and defined and categorized our experiences...each culture has a slightly different set of categories and labels.

    There is no fixed standard where Human emotions are concerned, we can only surmise......What one person calls love is not the same as another calls love.........We know there is pleasure involved.......Humans have been defining love for our whole history......We have created poems, songs and paintings.....and created thousands of allegorical gods to represent love....each of them different..........
Interesting!

I can't say they've done brain scans, but there's a researcher I saw on television one time who seemed to be able to induce in subjects the sensation or vision (wearing blindfolds) of God by placing a strong magnet near and just above their right temple. His conclusion was that God is simply something created in the human mind by electromagnetic forces. Folks like me, as you'd probably expect, see this work as simply showing some physiological means by which God can be accessed.

But I have to admit that actual brain scans would be more convincing.

Aside from all of this, I confess that often in a state of intoxication, via alcohol or cannabis, I have felt very close to God. I can't say that proves much though. Just mentioned it as what some may consider an interesting tidbit.

Thanks for sharing and best wishes,

Gavin