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jiminycricket1 74M
5508 posts
11/4/2021 4:36 am
Voting Rights..


There's a huge difference between restricting voting and excluding voting..

Although the States have had control over election...The voting rights bill, need to make it clear.. That voting restriction, can not exclude voters....nor can voting restrictions be use to deny blocks of votes.. nor can restrictions be use to NOT count legal votes. That any denial of vote counting based on restrictions.. must be done on an individual basis.. With the rights of any individual to challenge that denial.

That need to be the Voting Rights Law.

It once went unsaid, now it needs to be written in stone


jiminycricket1 74M
13732 posts
11/4/2021 4:51 am

you will get no argument from me.. that voting restriction aren't fair, that they based on party politics, That they are additional means to stay in power.
But what;s more important is that voter restrictions can be overcome..That voting still counts

Voting in the country has never been equal in availability, convenience, transparency, location, and racial bias..to try and make it so , in today world, is a fools errand .. you only make it worse.

One person , one vote....That MUST be counted.

The voting right bill, never made it to committee in the Senate.
Sad but True..
I am tired of the Democrats overreach. that misses the point, and gets the shaft.


LeafLeap 73M
444 posts
11/4/2021 10:14 am

Things in America are deeply dysfunctional now. I told you before Biden was even elected that I thought Democracy was already dead. I still believe that and believe we are only fooling ourselves now. Democracy has to be resurrected, not defended or protected.

The gerrymandering going on now are just more nails in our coffin. Transferring power over elections to the legislature is a railroad spike in that coffin. A successful coup is coming to America and I think it's only a matter of time when you begin to read about, and then witness live on TV murders in the streets...worse than Rittenhouse. How soon we get to this is hard to gauge...and the Supreme Court will either ignite the chaos or prevent it. It's a hell of a dilemma we now find ourselves in. I'm not counting on the court to get it right. I've never been more pessimistic. What republicans did over 1) Afghanistan 2) the Debt Limit 3) holding up over 80 critically important nominations and 4) not immediately stopping that obscene Texas Abortion law convinced me that there is an on-going coup in our congress and they won't quit until they topple this government. That Select Committee needs to play hardball every single day and the DOJ has to indict Trump. If they don't...you'll be lucky to live through this.


jiminycricket1 74M
13732 posts
11/4/2021 1:31 pm

    Quoting  :

Yes, that's what will if people get angry enough..


jiminycricket1 74M
13732 posts
11/4/2021 1:39 pm

    Quoting LeafLeap:
    Things in America are deeply dysfunctional now. I told you before Biden was even elected that I thought Democracy was already dead. I still believe that and believe we are only fooling ourselves now. Democracy has to be resurrected, not defended or protected.

    The gerrymandering going on now are just more nails in our coffin. Transferring power over elections to the legislature is a railroad spike in that coffin. A successful coup is coming to America and I think it's only a matter of time when you begin to read about, and then witness live on TV murders in the streets...worse than Rittenhouse. How soon we get to this is hard to gauge...and the Supreme Court will either ignite the chaos or prevent it. It's a hell of a dilemma we now find ourselves in. I'm not counting on the court to get it right. I've never been more pessimistic. What republicans did over 1) Afghanistan 2) the Debt Limit 3) holding up over 80 critically important nominations and 4) not immediately stopping that obscene Texas Abortion law convinced me that there is an on-going coup in our congress and they won't quit until they topple this government. That Select Committee needs to play hardball every single day and the DOJ has to indict Trump. If they don't...you'll be lucky to live through this.
Read TX

Then re-read my blog..

Voting restrictions won't work

Voting restrictions that are used to void ballots.. will work.. that's the plan
New voting restriction will allow, State legislatures to do.. what they couldn't do for Trump... void ballots and control the count.

Do what has to get done first.. before you do what's needs to get done.

PROTECT THE VOTE..........STOP THE STEAL.


LeafLeap 73M
444 posts
11/5/2021 10:08 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    Read TX

    Then re-read my blog..

    Voting restrictions won't work

    Voting restrictions that are used to void ballots.. will work.. that's the plan
    New voting restriction will allow, State legislatures to do.. what they couldn't do for Trump... void ballots and control the count.

    Do what has to get done first.. before you do what's needs to get done.

    PROTECT THE VOTE..........STOP THE STEAL.
In my view neither of you fully appreciate the problems here. I do know that you see the threats, injustice or whatever you wish to call the dynamics. Tx also grasps this to a point, but his point is theory based and yours cuts to the chase of utopia. I'm not trying to discredit either one of you. I am pointing to the reality of the threats and speaking to the consequence of not responding to the threats, that are real and now out of control. We are quickly losing our freedom, and it is serious. This legislation can't be cured, massaged or cleaned up in partisan committees. This is different. It should be debated fully, with every member of the senate free to contribute, to amend as they see fit and the senate owes it to the public to allow the full debate in fully public view. That is essential here. You cannot negotiate voting rights. We've already seen what comes of that. State after state is assaulting our way of life. It's a 5 alarm fire condition. The vote is the ONLY way out of division, unless the nation completely collapses in policy, and even then, it would be an arduous recovery doomed to failure. The playing field has to be leveled, then, and ONLY then, will citizens accept reality, because it will be truthful.

I give you tremendous credit for your writings about truth. They have been important to the public debate. I'm just at a point where I've weighed the options, seen the options tested, evaluated purported truth, argumentative truth. alternative truth and concluded that only the public truth, consensus based on truth can save us.

I do not believe this is 'obtainable' anymore. That is a word that both Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein frequently use...the best version of 'obtainable' truth. It's a high bar at that...but not nearly high enough. Only a vote can give us a shot above that, and that depends upon just what Woodward and Bernstein are referring to. it's harder than ever to get that...because of the imperfections we allow in voting. This bill advances us in profound ways of address those imperfections...and in do so, we move toward a more perfect union. No amount of sausage making in committee comes close.

The American people should be writing blistering letters to their senators demanding an end to their obstruction that has become subversion.


jiminycricket1 74M
13732 posts
11/5/2021 7:17 pm

    Quoting LeafLeap:
    In my view neither of you fully appreciate the problems here. I do know that you see the threats, injustice or whatever you wish to call the dynamics. Tx also grasps this to a point, but his point is theory based and yours cuts to the chase of utopia. I'm not trying to discredit either one of you. I am pointing to the reality of the threats and speaking to the consequence of not responding to the threats, that are real and now out of control. We are quickly losing our freedom, and it is serious. This legislation can't be cured, massaged or cleaned up in partisan committees. This is different. It should be debated fully, with every member of the senate free to contribute, to amend as they see fit and the senate owes it to the public to allow the full debate in fully public view. That is essential here. You cannot negotiate voting rights. We've already seen what comes of that. State after state is assaulting our way of life. It's a 5 alarm fire condition. The vote is the ONLY way out of division, unless the nation completely collapses in policy, and even then, it would be an arduous recovery doomed to failure. The playing field has to be leveled, then, and ONLY then, will citizens accept reality, because it will be truthful.

    I give you tremendous credit for your writings about truth. They have been important to the public debate. I'm just at a point where I've weighed the options, seen the options tested, evaluated purported truth, argumentative truth. alternative truth and concluded that only the public truth, consensus based on truth can save us.

    I do not believe this is 'obtainable' anymore. That is a word that both Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein frequently use...the best version of 'obtainable' truth. It's a high bar at that...but not nearly high enough. Only a vote can give us a shot above that, and that depends upon just what Woodward and Bernstein are referring to. it's harder than ever to get that...because of the imperfections we allow in voting. This bill advances us in profound ways of address those imperfections...and in do so, we move toward a more perfect union. No amount of sausage making in committee comes close.

    The American people should be writing blistering letters to their senators demanding an end to their obstruction that has become subversion.
No you don't appreciate the problem..You see voter restrictions that give Republican a better chance of winning. You're right..But as soon as you wish to void all voter restrictions .. it will end up you don't void any.
So voter id, mail in ballots, limited polling places, limited drop off boxes.. Voter registrations, purging voter rolls, and gerrymandering.... All restrict a legal voter from voting, and that will give Republican s a better chance of winning.. Whether you win or lose that fight won't make much difference..

Protect the votes that are made. Protect the count.
Everything they are doing.. is to give them credence to overturn an election.
It about what they didn't have to prove the BIG LIE..they will have it the next time.
The not only making easier to overturn elections.. but in some cases, they are making it legal all by itself.They will have the RIGHT to overturn it.


LeafLeap 73M
444 posts
11/7/2021 5:41 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    No you don't appreciate the problem..You see voter restrictions that give Republican a better chance of winning. You're right..But as soon as you wish to void all voter restrictions .. it will end up you don't void any.
    So voter id, mail in ballots, limited polling places, limited drop off boxes.. Voter registrations, purging voter rolls, and gerrymandering.... All restrict a legal voter from voting, and that will give Republican s a better chance of winning.. Whether you win or lose that fight won't make much difference..

    Protect the votes that are made. Protect the count.
    Everything they are doing.. is to give them credence to overturn an election.
    It about what they didn't have to prove the BIG LIE..they will have it the next time.
    The not only making easier to overturn elections.. but in some cases, they are making it legal all by itself.They will have the RIGHT to overturn it.
The threats are certainly enormous. But when you make it impossible to make good on a threat that can save us. We can't have filibuster obstruction on voting rights, and yet, if all the power goes to one party we will invent new threats. I believe gerrymandering is the key to all of this. If there was some way all the districts in America could be fairly redrawn then, and only then, would we restore the capacity to win over voters with policy proposals. That kind of reform, reforms the politics and then votes become representative of sentiment, and not votes of philosophy.


jiminycricket1 74M
13732 posts
11/7/2021 8:46 am

    Quoting LeafLeap:
    The threats are certainly enormous. But when you make it impossible to make good on a threat that can save us. We can't have filibuster obstruction on voting rights, and yet, if all the power goes to one party we will invent new threats. I believe gerrymandering is the key to all of this. If there was some way all the districts in America could be fairly redrawn then, and only then, would we restore the capacity to win over voters with policy proposals. That kind of reform, reforms the politics and then votes become representative of sentiment, and not votes of philosophy.
No... gerrymandering is bad but not fatal. restricting voting is bad but not fatal.
Changing vote counts is fatal.

That's their plan.. and it's need to be nipped in the bud..
The idea of what Trump tried to do is unfathomable.. But it happened it was tried..and was not nipped in the bud.
When it was tried it became possible.. When it became possible it became justifiable
It has open the door for the Republican Party to make sure the next time it will happen.
The shit you're talking about..hurts our Democracy
The shit I'm talking about DESTROYS our Democracy