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jiminycricket1 69M
4825 posts
6/16/2019 9:41 am
Discovering the TRUTH


I had an epiphany this morning... realizing what I do.. I do all the time..but I never focus on what it really is..

For most of you, it's impossible to understand....and I feel quite alone..

It's not about ideology. or political party.. I feel the same about it with both...

When I listen to a person.. I get an immediate impression....I have done it all my life, so I'm good at recognizing it..
In realm of politics and the news media... I can tell immediately.. again not in WHAT they say, but HOW they say it.. it's not in what truth they promote.. but how they promote it.. and it not in what truth they defend , but in how they defend it..

My way of seeing it , or thinking about it.. the idea am I right or am i wrong... doesn't even enter my mind....It's not about right or wrong..

The idea is the difference between telling me what the truth is.... and discovering what the truth is..
I have an aversion to ANYBODY, who tries to TELL ME what the truth is..


jiminycricket1 69M
11021 posts
6/16/2019 9:57 am

Throughout my entire life people have call me argumentative..

It's true.. because I can make an argument without having a position...Anyone who TELLS ME what is the truth.. gets an argument....my agreement or disagreement with that truth doesn't even matter.

I basically trust people.. but I keep getting the feeling we all live in "THE MATRIX", and fed a reality that doesn't exist..

I can't tell You what the true reality is.. I don't know....All I know is that most of you...
Don't Live There..
Most of you are manipulated into a truth...
You NEED to discover the TRUTH for yourself..


Rocketship 75F
15578 posts
6/16/2019 10:50 am

There are so many wheels within wheels. I'm not sure anything put out by anyone gets to the real truth of a situation....personally, locally, nationally, internationally.


bijou649 70F
701 posts
6/16/2019 12:51 pm

I'm not sure what you're saying JC but I'm finding that as I get older I only feel comfortable with people who are smiling at me when they talk to me. I worked in law for many years and have heard every conceivable lie and con, so basically I don't trust anyone and like to verify everything. I'm going all alone to buy a new car this week, so I hope the salesperson doesn't try to rip me off or sell me a lemon. lol


LeafReport 68M
2219 posts
6/16/2019 2:03 pm

Hi Cricket. Discovering the truth is important in nearly all endeavors. How one does that is equally important. I was born in Missouri, the Show Me state, and I admit I'm a hard sell at times. Without going into too much detail, my view on truth changed quite a bit as my religious faith matured. For example, take a trip to an art gallery by yourself. Take your time and wander around for awhile. You don't have to stare at each piece of work long, but it will surprise you what picture holds onto you longer than others. It will tug at you as you continue your visit and eventually you might decide to take one more look before you leave. Even if you don't do that, you'll think about that picture later. Then ask yourself why. When you answer with the truth you will learn how to discover it elsewhere.


jiminycricket1 69M
11021 posts
6/16/2019 3:32 pm

    Quoting LeafReport:
    Hi Cricket. Discovering the truth is important in nearly all endeavors. How one does that is equally important. I was born in Missouri, the Show Me state, and I admit I'm a hard sell at times. Without going into too much detail, my view on truth changed quite a bit as my religious faith matured. For example, take a trip to an art gallery by yourself. Take your time and wander around for awhile. You don't have to stare at each piece of work long, but it will surprise you what picture holds onto you longer than others. It will tug at you as you continue your visit and eventually you might decide to take one more look before you leave. Even if you don't do that, you'll think about that picture later. Then ask yourself why. When you answer with the truth you will learn how to discover it elsewhere.
yes.... seeing beyond what it is.. Once you do that you realize that nothing is exactly what it seems to be.

Of course the results of the truth are not the same for everybody....
But I got a problem with people who Don't bother to look.


jiminycricket1 69M
11021 posts
6/16/2019 3:41 pm

    Quoting bijou649:
    I'm not sure what you're saying JC but I'm finding that as I get older I only feel comfortable with people who are smiling at me when they talk to me. I worked in law for many years and have heard every conceivable lie and con, so basically I don't trust anyone and like to verify everything. I'm going all alone to buy a new car this week, so I hope the salesperson doesn't try to rip me off or sell me a lemon. lol
well... don't feel you have to be convinced.....Convince yourself..

Now that doesn't mean you'll be right everytime.. In a way, it's still a crapshoot...

but here's the deal....If you want to discover the truth.. do it by your own mistakes and not someone elses.

Blaming someone else for your mistakes... doesn't teach you a thing about the truth.


sparkleflit 72F
5063 posts
6/16/2019 4:00 pm

I'm home alone making art...I know that truth is mostly subjective....


hiramhankwilliam 96M
4480 posts
6/16/2019 5:31 pm

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    Throughout my entire life people have call me argumentative..

    It's true.. because I can make an argument without having a position...Anyone who TELLS ME what is the truth.. gets an argument....my agreement or disagreement with that truth doesn't even matter.

    I basically trust people.. but I keep getting the feeling we all live in "THE MATRIX", and fed a reality that doesn't exist..

    I can't tell You what the true reality is.. I don't know....All I know is that most of you...
    Don't Live There..
    Most of you are manipulated into a truth...
    You NEED to discover the TRUTH for yourself..
jc, you are so full of shyt your breaff stanks and ya mamys drawers smell bad

DEATH IS A CERTAIN, ETERNITY IS A CHOICE


hiramhankwilliam 96M
4480 posts
6/16/2019 5:32 pm

    Quoting LeafReport:
    Hi Cricket. Discovering the truth is important in nearly all endeavors. How one does that is equally important. I was born in Missouri, the Show Me state, and I admit I'm a hard sell at times. Without going into too much detail, my view on truth changed quite a bit as my religious faith matured. For example, take a trip to an art gallery by yourself. Take your time and wander around for awhile. You don't have to stare at each piece of work long, but it will surprise you what picture holds onto you longer than others. It will tug at you as you continue your visit and eventually you might decide to take one more look before you leave. Even if you don't do that, you'll think about that picture later. Then ask yourself why. When you answer with the truth you will learn how to discover it elsewhere.
how would u know any thing shty for brains

DEATH IS A CERTAIN, ETERNITY IS A CHOICE


hiramhankwilliam 96M
4480 posts
6/16/2019 5:33 pm

    Quoting  :

who died a made u know any thing. new id fro me too ban . dyck breath

DEATH IS A CERTAIN, ETERNITY IS A CHOICE


hiramhankwilliam 96M
4480 posts
6/16/2019 6:14 pm

    Quoting  :

THATS RUDE JC IS MY BUDDY.

SEE U AN LEAF IS SUCK BUDDIES, YOUR THE SUCK AND HE IS THE BUDDIE THEN YALLS SWAP

DEATH IS A CERTAIN, ETERNITY IS A CHOICE


jiminycricket1 69M
11021 posts
6/17/2019 6:36 am

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    I'm home alone making art...I know that truth is mostly subjective....
The idea of the truth , and anything we call "art"..
the idea of the artist and the viewer have two different perspectives.

I can't imagine an "artist" who's truth is not objective..I can't imagine an "artist" able to create a work of art for the purpose of the viewers subjectively..

It would be like the difference between the writer and the editor.. The writer's truth is objective, but the editors truth is for the purpose of the viewers subjectivity. People may think the opposite... that the ability to allow people to understand is objective.. but here's the rub..People's understanding is the only subjectivity.
From the artist's sense... the matter of subjectivity becomes "tweaking" not creating.


jiminycricket1 69M
11021 posts
6/17/2019 6:55 am

    Quoting  :

No way....

Whether he see himself as satirical, cynical, comical, vengeful or petulant.. There are ways to make the point...But just scoffing at others doesn't get it done.. and reveals his own inadequacies..

Why would i want to exterminate him?... He makes my points better than I can..


sparkleflit 72F
5063 posts
6/17/2019 7:29 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    The idea of the truth , and anything we call "art"..
    the idea of the artist and the viewer have two different perspectives.

    I can't imagine an "artist" who's truth is not objective..I can't imagine an "artist" able to create a work of art for the purpose of the viewers subjectively..

    It would be like the difference between the writer and the editor.. The writer's truth is objective, but the editors truth is for the purpose of the viewers subjectivity. People may think the opposite... that the ability to allow people to understand is objective.. but here's the rub..People's understanding is the only subjectivity.
    From the artist's sense... the matter of subjectivity becomes "tweaking" not creating.
That makes absolutely no sense to me .........Are you sure you know what the words "objective" and "subjective" mean?.......

Creativity is highly subjective.........Artists don't create works for the viewer's subjectivity, though there are elements of objectivity involved......Subjectivity is based on the creator's perception........


bijou649 70F
701 posts
6/17/2019 9:28 am

    Quoting  :


hiramhankwilliam 96M
4480 posts
6/17/2019 9:30 am

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    That makes absolutely no sense to me .........Are you sure you know what the words "objective" and "subjective" mean?.......

    Creativity is highly subjective.........Artists don't create works for the viewer's subjectivity, though there are elements of objectivity involved......Subjectivity is based on the creator's perception........


when u fart does that be considered being art. see a fart is art. or an art is afart.

either way is be objectively subjective

DEATH IS A CERTAIN, ETERNITY IS A CHOICE


Archer62 78F
4512 posts
6/17/2019 9:33 am

NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.


sparkleflit 72F
5063 posts
6/17/2019 9:55 am

    Quoting hiramhankwilliam:
    when u fart does that be considered being art. see a fart is art. or an art is afart.

    either way is be objectively subjective
We already get that you are dumb as a rock.....you don't need to advertise it constantly.


jiminycricket1 69M
11021 posts
6/17/2019 11:07 am

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    That makes absolutely no sense to me .........Are you sure you know what the words "objective" and "subjective" mean?.......

    Creativity is highly subjective.........Artists don't create works for the viewer's subjectivity, though there are elements of objectivity involved......Subjectivity is based on the creator's perception........


You get hung up on the words.. Objectivity and subjectivity..

In the meaning of the way I'm using them.....Is the base on what they mean..

objectivity.. is a direct understanding of the specifics of something .. subjectivity is an indirect understanding of the overall of something
The artist has a direct understanding of what he is doing..he has no subjectivity..about it...The ideas of relationships of things, metaphors, and a deeper understanding are not subjective to the artist...They are his vision, and his objectivity He doesn't create the subjectivity for the viewer.. He creates his own objectivity

The idea of subjectivity.. is the interpretation of the artist vision... The artist can't not understand all the interpretations he will get from the viewer of his artwork... He only understand his own. and hopes the viewer can see it too.
The thing about great art.. no matter the subjectivity or the interpretation.. it's still great. You don't have to see the specifics of the artist vision.. to know it great..it just is..

There are artists.. that without knowing the specific vision...it doesn't make sense..
The subjectivity destroys the artwork, but not the objectivity of the artist

If you think about it it applies to everything including politics.....If you can't understand an idea.. that doesn't make the idea bad....and certainly doesnt make the person who has that idea bad.. YOU have to try an understand it... TO pass judgment on it. yes..... subjectivity not only broadens horizons.. but it also destroys them.


jiminycricket1 69M
11021 posts
6/17/2019 12:18 pm

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    That makes absolutely no sense to me .........Are you sure you know what the words "objective" and "subjective" mean?.......

    Creativity is highly subjective.........Artists don't create works for the viewer's subjectivity, though there are elements of objectivity involved......Subjectivity is based on the creator's perception........


NO the creativity is based on the viewers perception.. not the creators
Creativity is NOT SUBJECTIVE.. You misinterpret the pronouns.. The creativity is not subjective.. but the interpretation of the creativity is...

Subjectivity will put an artist all over the map....he can't do it... he can't be subjective and create his vision..The idea of the artist.. is to make the subjectivity, become the objectivity...You may get a choice.. but the artist doesn't want you to make it.. he wants to give it to you...his objectivity. that makes, that which seems to be a choice to become objective...An artist goal is to change how you see things.. to way he sees it. But unlike other people.. an artist is HONEST about it.. take it or leave it

Let me ask you as an artist... do you create your art for other people...or do you create for yourself ....When you create... is it important other people like it... or that YOU like it.. is it important that it say something to them.. or it says something to YOU..It is important that they understand it, or you understand it?....Is it important your art, expresses your honesty and truth.

Now you think like most other people... Artistry for profit, artistry for fame. artistry for recognition.... But here's the deal.. You think that way... and YOU are NO artist.. You might as well just get into advertising..being an artist is NOT a vocation.


hiramhankwilliam 96M
4480 posts
6/17/2019 4:59 pm

criket, you tell her. she isa know it all

DEATH IS A CERTAIN, ETERNITY IS A CHOICE


hiramhankwilliam 96M
4480 posts
6/17/2019 5:00 pm

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    We already get that you are dumb as a rock.....you don't need to advertise it constantly.
ill bet you would not think I wus dumb ifn you ever decided to sample m y southern rednesk love makin

DEATH IS A CERTAIN, ETERNITY IS A CHOICE


sparkleflit 72F
5063 posts
6/17/2019 6:21 pm

I don't create "for" anyone......I create......it's an action unto itself......I begin with an idea.....a direction, but not a plan......I assemble the materials and tools ....the idea is not fixed......there are emotions involved. I have studied colour,shape, proportion, foreshortning, angle, perspective, lighting....I have decades of experience.....I know my materials, I experiment........I develop an idea through doing, through action.......I have intent to convey my abstract idea....to bring it to life.........


sparkleflit 72F
5063 posts
6/17/2019 7:10 pm

"The thing about great art.. no matter the subjectivity or the interpretation.. it's still great. You don't have to see the specifics of the artist vision.. to know it great..it just is..

If that were true, why is the greatness of art subjective?......Why do so many people disagree on which art is great?.......Why is so much art not recognized as great until the artist is dead?......Who gets to decide if art is great?........Most great art isn't recognized at the time.....many artists are ahead of their time and not appreciated until years later.......If great art is obvious, why is it so controversial?.......Like Jackson Pollock or Jean-Michel Basqiuat.......If you had seen their paintings without knowledge of their reputations, would you know it's greatness?

"His objectivity" doesn't make sense.......Subjective truth is that which is true for that person........if it is "his" objectivity it is subjective.......Art is all about subjectivity.......If it was objective, it would be an architectual drawing


sparkleflit 72F
5063 posts
6/18/2019 7:54 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    exactly.. you apply the words but not the meanings.. words like abstract.. that YOU believe is subjective.. It certainly can be... but NOT the specific abstract thought you're trying to convey..

    In politics the confusion is more relevant.. For example being Liberal is not objective... it's subjective..
    .. Yet you try to turn it to be objective..
    the more abstract idea of Liberalism..like morals, like caring, and providing for others is NOT subjective.. It objective..you either are or you're not..
    if i express something I label Liberal I'm being subjective.. but if I express something like caring or helping others or telling the TRUTH... I'm being objective.

    ART does the same the expression of a more abstract idea is a specific and objective.... The subjectivity part is... You either get it or you don't.

    And I'm confused...

    I disagree wiith the way you think..

    In your world the "thing" defines the objectivity. Like a 'thing" can define itself.. There is no such thing as a "stardard" for objectivity

    In my world... the objectivity defines "the thing".. And subjectivity defines many things about "the thing"
.................


jiminycricket1 69M
11021 posts
6/18/2019 8:06 am

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    I don't create "for" anyone......I create......it's an action unto itself......I begin with an idea.....a direction, but not a plan......I assemble the materials and tools ....the idea is not fixed......there are emotions involved. I have studied colour,shape, proportion, foreshortning, angle, perspective, lighting....I have decades of experience.....I know my materials, I experiment........I develop an idea through doing, through action.......I have intent to convey my abstract idea....to bring it to life.........
exactly.. you apply the words but not the meanings.. words like abstract.. that YOU believe is subjective.. It certainly can be... but NOT the specific abstract thought you're trying to convey..

In politics the confusion is more relevant.. For example being Liberal is not objective... it's subjective..
.. Yet you try to turn it to be objective..
the more abstract idea of Liberalism..like morals, like caring, and providing for others is NOT subjective.. It objective..you either are or you're not..
if i express something I label Liberal I'm being subjective.. but if I express something like caring or helping others or telling the TRUTH... I'm being objective.

ART does the same the expression of a more abstract idea is a specific and objective.... The subjectivity part is... You either get it or you don't.

And I'm confused...

I disagree with the way you think..

In your world the "thing" defines the objectivity. Like a 'thing" can define itself.. There is no such thing as a "stardard" for objectivity

In my world... the objectivity defines "the thing".. And subjectivity defines many things about "the thing"


jiminycricket1 69M
11021 posts
6/18/2019 9:21 am

Well, I certainly understand your point of view.. most people have it....

It's strange how people think that sight determines objectivity.. what you SEE...is what it is..

But that is only part true..What a person sees doesn't define his objectivity. What he thinks about what he sees defines his objectivity..Objectivity is not a narrowed scope..It's a definition. People have to be objective... it's the only thing they know...Subjectivity is more about what they don't know. An artist creates a representation of his subjectivity.....But here's the rub... Once a person get's it.. It doesn't define that person subjectivity.. It defines his objectivity.. That person simply will now define that object by what he knows.. and what he's knows is objective.

The idea that a blind man, must then be subjective is wrong.. A blind man is the MOST objective person there can be. But like an artist.. Your idea of a blind man's objectivity.. becomes your subjectivity. it becomes what you don't know. instead what you do.

Your idea that objectivity and subjectivity are opposites is WRONG... they are parts of the same thing.. Your idea that Liberal and Conservative is opposite is Wrong... they are parts of the same thing. Your idea that GOD and reality are opposite is WRONG.......They are parts of the same thing.

You see it's not my subjectivity but my objectivity that tells me... Truth is by plurality.. So You're not wrong and I must be.. for you stand with others.. and I stand alone. Yet my subjectivity tells me....The hell with YOU.


jiminycricket1 69M
11021 posts
6/18/2019 10:05 am

there another thing that proves my point..

The throughout evolution...throughout history, throughout your own life... Your objectivity can change.. that which once defined can change. Great Art changes objectivity.. It's doesn't create subjectivity.

Because the truth is... subjectivity doesn't change.

And to point it out to You..

The objectivity about God can change.. You can do it .. It's possible.. it's been done before and it will be done again

What's NOT possible is the subjectivity about GOD... You can't change that.


sparkleflit 72F
5063 posts
6/18/2019 10:38 am

Oh my God.......the rantings of a madman......what are you on?.......


jiminycricket1 69M
11021 posts
6/18/2019 12:21 pm

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    Oh my God.......the rantings of a madman......what are you on?.......
WTF is the matter with YOU?... You are ONE privy to subjectivity.. It's your truth, as an artist, and YOU are going give it to the world? You are going to show them , and me, my objectivity is just being a narrowminded a-hole?

Yes.. I'm a "mad" man...

I'm mad when people think they know they are right.
I'm mad when people think their objectivity is unchangeable, and the subjectivity of that objectivity... I a speak of is for fools and blind men. that can't understand and can't see.
I'm mad when people know their right.. When I know they can't KNOW IT.
I'm mad when people can't think in terms of possibility ..that somehow they have been given the truth that others haven't been given.
I'm mad when a person refuses to even try to understand.. and has to resort to "the ranting of a mad man" to justify themselves.

So let me ask you... why didn't you just drop it.. and leave it a that.. I have not disagreed with you.. you have disagreed with me..
I have said...You are normal, and I am not .
What more could you ask for... from a "ranting madman"

So it leaves me... with two options..
you either DON'T understand ....and it is your choice to be a narrowminded a-hole

Or you DO understand... and it's your choice to be a narrowminded a-hole.

What are you on
?...... And you think your different than others here... no matter their ideology... You're just like them..
"You see it's not my subjectivity but my objectivity that tells me... Truth is by plurality.. So You're not wrong and I must be.. for you stand with others.. and I stand alone. Yet my subjectivity tells me....The hell with YOU."

WTF ..is the matter with you..?

What are you on?.. well .. I'm on to YOU

You and Panther can take my blog responses and shove them up your "Hole"
.
You and your "Man Thing"... you don't have it between your ears or between your legs... You don't have to get "over" on me.......You have to get over yourself..

Now. you see I am "mansplaining"... So you can go ahead and shut your ears...But if your going do that.. why don't you shut your mouth too.


sparkleflit 72F
5063 posts
6/18/2019 12:49 pm

You named your blog "Discovering the Truth" and said you had an "epiphany".......

My comment was...."I'm home alone making art and find that truth is mostly subjective......as in......My personal, inner experience......Then you went on this rant about subjective/objective and it went on and on and on......my "where you have been quoted page" shows that you posted and then deleted 4 or 5 versions of every post........and each of the posts ricocheted back and forth between subjective and objective as if you were playing a mad game of ping-pong with yourself......after sever of those, in which you argued with things you assumed I was thinking but had nothing to do with what I think or said..........

In one of them you accuse me of getting hung up on subejctive/objective, when it was actually you who picked it up and acted like a German Shepard shaking a kitten to death..............You obsessed......and got confused......Why are you projecting stuff on me that has nothing to do with me?.....


sparkleflit 72F
5063 posts
6/18/2019 1:02 pm

There is nothing objective about God......God does not exist in the realm of the Objective.......God is entirely subjective...... to a level of absurdity......


jiminycricket1 69M
11021 posts
6/19/2019 12:54 am

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    There is nothing objective about God......God does not exist in the realm of the Objective.......God is entirely subjective...... to a level of absurdity......
Your stuck on your version of the objectivity of God.. it doesn't exist.. as defined by others.. Even with your version I agree, as defined by others, GOD does not exist... But for me, God exists as I define him...So let me ask you.. can God exist by your defintion instead of someone else's.. So God, for me, can be a matter of my objectivity..
If it can't for you.. I feel sorry for you... denying the objectivity of God. denies the subjectivity.. And there we part company.

These are the kinds of things you say.. the says you know nothing about objectivity.. you assume stuff about it.. like it's finite....like some objectivity is true and other objectivity isn't.. when the fact is it's all true...and it's not finite. I wasn't putting you down about your view of men..I agree with it..

the "man thing" as a way you think is a perfect example..of your objectivity..but to me a man is subjective.. I fight against labels.. because it tries to make a subjective matter objective.. You may not realize it, but YOU do it all the time. and you do it with men

So I agree with your objectivity... it is the truth... but here's where we part company.. and in particular how you phrase things .. which identifies..how you think, and how I think different.

You don't have to be a man ... to be a "DICK"


jiminycricket1 69M
11021 posts
6/19/2019 1:11 am

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    You named your blog "Discovering the Truth" and said you had an "epiphany".......

    My comment was...."I'm home alone making art and find that truth is mostly subjective......as in......My personal, inner experience......Then you went on this rant about subjective/objective and it went on and on and on......my "where you have been quoted page" shows that you posted and then deleted 4 or 5 versions of every post........and each of the posts ricocheted back and forth between subjective and objective as if you were playing a mad game of ping-pong with yourself......after sever of those, in which you argued with things you assumed I was thinking but had nothing to do with what I think or said..........

    In one of them you accuse me of getting hung up on subejctive/objective, when it was actually you who picked it up and acted like a German Shepard shaking a kitten to death..............You obsessed......and got confused......Why are you projecting stuff on me that has nothing to do with me?.....
Here we go again.. my title discovering the truth .. is discovering my truth.. my Epiphany is about My truth.. and how I don 't like it.. I have discovered something I don't particularly like about myself yet there is something about the 'discovery" that makes it all worthwhile.

Let me ask you.. I write four or five versions... but they are exactly the same thought.. The are rewriiten because I type badly.. they are rewritten to change a word or two so I can give you half a chance to understand it. And sometimes to enhance what I think is an incompleted idea.
Now writing four or five version means what?.. i write it because i don't know what I'm talking about.. I write it over again so I must be confused.

Listen if when I'm done with it.. dont't tell me I don't understand it.. Tell me You don't understand it... then it will be my fault...
But when you tell me ... I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT.. It's your fault.


sparkleflit 72F
5063 posts
6/19/2019 10:44 am


You don't have to be a woman to be a "CUNT"........."God exists as I define him" is subjective.......You don't understand what the terms "subjective" and "objective" mean or you are dyslexic.......You have such a terrible time saying what you mean.......I empathise with your confusion, that's why I'm still here, but you must have been this way for a very long time.....I'm not the first person who doesn't understand what you are attempting to communicate.

You seem to be angry and lashing out at me for misunderstanding you and taking no responsibility for your inability to express your thoughts clearly. I have been reading advanced philosophy all my life, I have no problem understanding abstractions, yet reading your posts is often like playing whack-a-mole..........Perhaps it would help if you defined your terms.

Since you have decided to use your own personal definitions of the terms "objective" and "subjective" instead of the common definitions, it's incumbent on you to define your usage........and stay with it......you seem to be switching the meanings of the two words back and forth..........You may not like me and I may make you angry, but I'm still here.......though you are apparently satisfied in having a back-and-forth with yourself most of the time.


jiminycricket1 69M
11021 posts
6/20/2019 10:23 am

To show you what I mean , in way that may make sense to .. is about God.. an not you but 'others"

Subjectivity is a wide range of possibilities..

Objectively.. I don't believe in God... the way other people believe in god.. but subjectively I do.

Those people that say they believe in God... have chosen a particular point in the range of subjectivity.. and have MADE that point objective..
The problem with people dealing with life.. is once that objective point is chosen .. all other possibilities become mute.
Objectivity by most people is defined as the truth.. and if other possibilities exist.. they can not be true. The fact is people can not function in a world of subjectivity, in world of "possible" truths

So a person who objectively believes in God.. ignores any other possibility.. They have too.. it would drive them crazy to consider anything else. They can not accept other possibilities... as soon as they objectively define GOD.

You may think, I'm just talking about GOD.. but I'm talking about EVERYTHING... and How EVERYBODY, including me.. does it. I'm just aware of it... I don't live it.


jiminycricket1 69M
11021 posts
6/20/2019 11:35 am

God exists as I define him" is subjective . It's is NOT subjective....the moment someone defines God they are being objective.. not defining God is being subjective., but by defining God by all the possibilities GOD could be.. is subjective... if there is only one possibility... it's objective. In your case.. you define God as not existing...that is a definition and it's singular.. and according to how your mind works.. it is objective. not subjective.

We are obviously hung up on words... words are both objective and subjective. they define both a thing and a subject. You may not understand what I say.. because objectively the words don't fit.. but I will always have an interpretation of what You say....Because I see word subjectively.
I may misinterpret, but I will never say .. and will never think, you don't know what you're talking about.. I will always interpret it ...so you do.

So subjectively .. I always agree with you.
but objectively.. I can't.. because i see other possibilities.

With you .. You don't even have a choice.

So we both agree with what is objectivity.. but disagree on subjectivity..
Objectivity is a definition of a thing.. the lends itself to be a single truth..Subjectivity.. is multiple definitions of a thing.. and lends itself to the possibility of different truths.

"Perhaps it would help if you defined your terms. Since you have decided to use your own personal definitions of the terms "objective" and "subjective" instead of the common definitions"

Okay we agree on objectivity... so this statement means.. I must define my term "subjective.." to agree with the common usage.. Which is nearly impossible because there is NO common usage of subjectivity...it is in itself uncommon.
I doubt you could say anything more indicative of the fact... you don't know what subjectivity is.. to define subjective, one must be subjective.


jiminycricket1 69M
11021 posts
6/20/2019 12:29 pm

You also make the mistake .. that objectivity and subjectivity are judgments you pass on others. They are terms not what others do... but what YOU DO.
You have to understand yourself to understand it..So you can't understand subjectivity because you don't do it.

EVERYONE is objective.. they can't exist without it.

Now subjective is not about YOUR certainty.. it's about people's uncertainty.

So, I call myself subjective.. simply. NOT because I am certain I am.. but because I'm uncertain about everything. I'm not suggesting people become subjective.. believe me.. it's NOT fun.
I say more power to you that you believe God doesn't exist.. and I say more power to them that believe they believe God does.. but don't tell me... that either you or they are being subjective.

Because if one is being subjective about God.. God both does and doesn't exist. As in some ways he does and in someways he doesn't. That is the subjectivity of GOD. and the subjectivity of EVERYTHING.


sparkleflit 72F
5063 posts
6/20/2019 12:54 pm

Clearly, you still don't know the definitions of the words "objective" and "subjective"......It's not as complicated as you seem to think.......

You say that I define God as not existing......I don't define God that way, that is just your assumption......and it is just as erroneous as your other assumptions of what I think.......



jiminycricket1 69M
11021 posts
6/21/2019 12:00 am

Last chance.. see if you can understand this.. in the political world.. and what people do..

We define liberalism and conservatism objectively.. The criteria we use could be different.. lets say defining Liberalism... And it goes the same for those who define conservatism.. no matter what that definition is. it is objective..

However, subjectively, Liberalism and Conservatism are the SAME THING.. Subjectively any criteria or definition one chooses to apply.... applies to each.


jiminycricket1 69M
11021 posts
6/22/2019 4:54 am

I try to define things the way I see them.......My problem is I see them subjectively...I see God subjectively.. I talk subjectively.. So It's hard for people to understand. it hard for people to know what I am defining.

I understand what we as human HAVE TO DO......WE HAVE to be objective.. WE have to be able to distinguish things ..
Many of things we try to distinguish are just made up shit.. The criteria, only works in the objective world.. Doesn't work in the subjective world.

So let's get down to the nitty gritty of what I am saying.. Of what i see everyday...
about the shit that we do... to distinguish things..

How objectivity. not only defines things .. but when mistakenly taken apart from the subjective world...destroys subjectivity.

WE do it to ourselves..

WE define our differences,... until that objectivity destroys the subjectivity of being human.

It is simply.. the cause of every single one of humanity's problems..