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jiminycricket1 69M
4819 posts
1/13/2019 9:30 am
Conspiracy....the lie of the Conspirator


So we have it.. the conspiracy theorist..

I don't know what specifically the counter intelligence investigation knows..

I know what it doesn't mean....As to open one REQUIRES EVIDENCE.. To maintain one REQUIRES evidence

The idea that the evidence that's effects Trump Administration People.. That's is trying to infer of Trump's involvement.. That idea of that is the witch hunt.. To INFER.....
In that inference Trump says There was No COLLUSION.. and it's a conspiracy

This has changed it.......

It now goes the other way around..

THE EVIDENCE is Trump's Collusion... and the inference is to his people....that's what it takes to open a counter intelligence investigation.. All those people Mueller has indicted.. every single one them...Has got caught, not because of their collusion.. but because, of Trump and Russia.. They don't prove Trump's guilt.. Trump's guilt proves their guilt of collusion.. Those indicted, except for maybe Manafort, did the deed....
but didn't have the intent.. Trump and Russia were moving the pawns.

This is NOT a conspiracy.....The evidence of Trump collusion and obstruction.. will no longer be indirect..We think that collusion and obstruction are separate.. Collusion with Russia to get elected. An obstruction to protect Trump's election and his people

But this changes..... When the obstruction becomes the collusion..Collusion to get elected NO LONGER MATTERS. It's only a tiny fraction of what this means


jiminycricket1 69M
11015 posts
1/13/2019 9:40 am

There's an idea here.. That is used by trump... that we don't even see..Trump's alternative facts and hyperbole... Doesn't increase OUR alternative facts and Hyperbole.. but simpl..... in the opposite... grounds US
It creates , in our mind.. the inability to think in possibilities. If Trump thinks in possibilities.. we can not .

OUR assessment of Collusion and Obstruction.. is only based on the facts we know.
And by Trump's necessities.. makes us ignore the facts we don't know.. To counter him.

When the Mueller report comes out .... It all works against him....Most of us will not accept alternative facts and lies any more....We have been grounded..

You think it's bad NOW.. when Mueller report comes out... heads are going to roll.


jiminycricket1 69M
11015 posts
1/13/2019 10:08 am

Think of the passes, reduced sentences, and immunity.. Mueller has given..

On the basis of Trump's involvement ...if Trump was not involved.. those thing will cost him as being too lenient..
If |Trump is involved then all the leniency does matter..

Mueller wouldn't do that... without KNOWING


LeafReport 68M
2202 posts
1/13/2019 11:48 am

I have always been perplexed by Jared's apparent power. I'll be fascinated by whatever, if anything, Mueller uncovers there. I'm deeply suspicious that Jared has been manipulating the Trump family for years. There's a link to Bibi as well and you know there's manipulation in that relationship. I've never grasped why Jared would put up with Flynn and Bannon being a part of the team. I think now that Jared and Trump set out to use both of them and then blame and discard them when their primary goal had been achieved. I think Mueller now knows what that goal was....and I think the counter-intelligence investigation uncovered that. What nobody expected was for Sally Yates to figure it all out and its been one chaotic cover-up ever since. That report is going to be so interesting. I think there is conspiracy here, its just not the conspiracy you were looking for.


LeafReport 68M
2202 posts
1/13/2019 12:12 pm

This is Israeli intelligence working in very deep ways to eventually get the U.S. into a war with Iran. That's not an easy thing to do in overt ways. Obama marginalized Iran but that is not what Israel ever wanted. They couldn't install Bolton at NSA right away...they had to sneak him in at the right time. Flynn provided the cover for that with his ridiculous public 'Iran is on notice' proclamation in a White House briefing. Shortly after that...Yates spills the beans and plan B was hatched....Bolton. Then Rocket man screwed it all up. Foreign policy is messy...and Trump was way over his head. You have to remember its only been 2 years. Trump is desperate to discredit this investigation because the stakes are so high. Bibi has made several trips to Moscow. Have you ever asked yourself...why? The answer is Turkey....and Iranian militants in Syria...and once again Obama...who went into Syria to chase ISIS...another problem nobody saw coming. I think this whole matter has deep Israeli roots and they went after Jared to pull it all off. Once the Iranian militants are wiped out of Syria (see Russia)...the deck is cleared to take on Iran...because Trump has turned a blind eye (for profit) by allowing the Saudi's to commit atrocities in Yemen and wipe out the rebels there.

It just all fits....but nothing works unless Trump gets elected. Nobody else presented a 'Jared' opportunity. It's never simple Cricket...its complicated as hell....and somebody saw or heard or read something at the FBI....and it was enough to persuade judges.


LeafReport 68M
2202 posts
1/13/2019 12:13 pm

There was no threat to fire Rosenstein really...because that would expose the cover-up they are still trying to pull off.


LeafReport 68M
2202 posts
1/13/2019 12:19 pm

When you read the Nixon tapes and study the Watergate testimony, which I have, you realize one thing. It's hard to execute a cover-up because you cannot always account for every possibility. They never had time to get rid of Yates....and Nixon never expected deep throat.

I could be wrong...but I strongly believe this is a lot bigger than any of us realize. The Russian involvement is just too deep to conclude otherwise...its drip, drip, drip....even to the point of fascism in order to protect the cover-up.


LeafReport 68M
2202 posts
1/13/2019 12:26 pm

McConnell isn't worried about Rosenstein because everyone in the senate knows there is a cover-up already. The threat to protect him was strategic...to see what else Trump might inadvertently expose. It's also to begin preparing the American people for one hell of a shock.

You are right in my view...this is Benedict Arnold level stuff....and the typical way a traitor falls prey...money.


jiminycricket1 69M
11015 posts
1/13/2019 12:46 pm

    Quoting LeafReport:
    I have always been perplexed by Jared's apparent power. I'll be fascinated by whatever, if anything, Mueller uncovers there. I'm deeply suspicious that Jared has been manipulating the Trump family for years. There's a link to Bibi as well and you know there's manipulation in that relationship. I've never grasped why Jared would put up with Flynn and Bannon being a part of the team. I think now that Jared and Trump set out to use both of them and then blame and discard them when their primary goal had been achieved. I think Mueller now knows what that goal was....and I think the counter-intelligence investigation uncovered that. What nobody expected was for Sally Yates to figure it all out and its been one chaotic cover-up ever since. That report is going to be so interesting. I think there is conspiracy here, its just not the conspiracy you were looking for.
yes.. but I think you got all those other folks wrong....
There's a difference between Bibi and Trump and Putin and Trump.

The difference is in getting what you want to happen..Bibi and Putin see the restrictions.. they know they have to work around them.. and if that doesn't work. to reevaluate what it is they want..So what Bibi and Putin WANT are restricted by what they can get.
Trump has NO SUCH RESTRICTIONS.
He see the power Bibi and Putin have... and can't understand why they just don't take what they want. Trump doesn't care...... he just DOES WHATEVER IT TAKES to actually get what he wants.

The difference between what you want and what you think is going to happen.
Not only goes for leaders... but also is the reasoning behind Trump and trump supporters..

They also think that what they want.. is the only reality, and only truth

Both I and my brother agreed we wanted the Chargers to beat the Patriots today...
He couldn't understand when i told him ...But, I don't think the Chargers stand a snowballs chance in hell.. My brother is a Trump voter...And refused to understand that wanting the Charger to win... didn't mean they had the best chance of winning..He refuse to accept ..I wanted the Charger to win.. If I thought they didn't stand a snowballs chance.


jiminycricket1 69M
11015 posts
1/13/2019 1:08 pm

The indictment of Trump's People.. is suppose to INFER Trump's involvement.
It certainly doesn't do that completely and leaves the door open. For Trump to say NO Collusion.

But the investigation is not based on that... Trump's collusion infers his Peoples involvement.. It's his people that can say, for themselves, there was NO Collusion ..
They weren't colluding with Russians.. Trump was..All except Manafort.. who actually was. At his point , and what Friday night tells us..about the investigation.... is that Trump and Manafort are the only two, we know at this point, that are going to be indicted for conspiring with Russians.


LeafReport 68M
2202 posts
1/13/2019 4:31 pm

Bibi is the ringleader here Cricket....


LeafReport 68M
2202 posts
1/13/2019 4:33 pm

Just listen to all the BS Trump spews about a stupid wall. Trump is an idiot.


LeafReport 68M
2202 posts
1/13/2019 4:35 pm

Bibi has been angry for a long time because American churches by the thousands have been divesting from Israeli companies who are profiting from entities operating in stolen West Bank land. This is complicated.


LeafReport 68M
2202 posts
1/13/2019 5:52 pm

What I'm saying is that Bibi is using Jared to help advance his cause because Trump trusts him implicitly and Bibi needs a useful puppet. He doesn't want to pull the strings himself though. That would blow up spectacularly. It's not hard to grasp why Jared was cool to Christie in the transition. It wasn't that Christie prosecuted his father, it was because Christie was smart. That's not in Jared's best interest....so he had to go. Trump has to be manipulated into starting a war. That plan went south too because the generals Trump hired were not the yes men they had hoped they were. This is why it has been so unbelievably chaotic. The Trump family has no political experience. It is harder to pull off than they ever imagined. Not to be lost in all this is the self-interest of all the players too...and that includes Putin, who is looking for a way to grab Ukraine and expand influence in the Middle East, and Bibi himself, who now find himself fighting corruption charges....wag the dog solves a lot of problems...and Bibi is probably getting impatient....and look what happened only yesterday....the headline that Bolton asked the Pentagon for military plans to strike Iran. They are looking for the match...and that came when mortars were fired toward the embassy in Baghdad. People are getting nervous. A lot easier to take on Iran when troops are not in Syria....and why worry about a Saudi murderer when you don't care about a famine in Yemen. These are not very bright people. Mattis didn't want anything to do with this crap.


LeafReport 68M
2202 posts
1/13/2019 6:12 pm

I'm pretty much in agreement with you that only Manafort and Trump are the ones involved in collusion...and that's the way Bibi would obviously prefer it were it ever to become exposed. Jared has never been serious in brokering a deal with the Palestinians....he goes to Israel periodically for brainwashing. This is a long game strategy of course...Obama bought the Israelis time by marginalizing Iran. The war is supposed to come next year...election year of course. It's such a dangerous game they are playing, and the cover-up is proving to be a different kind of war...that Putin is fighting, and Trump never saw it coming...but Sally Yates did.

We shall see...but you have to ask yourself...what was the REAL reason Senator Corker left public service....Trump...or Senator Cotton? Then ask yourself why all this terrorist BS about crossing the southern border? When the enemy is on your doorstep (which it isn't), its an easier sell than an enemy hiding behind rubble in Aleppo.

It's a huge mess with incredible tentacles and a deep cover-up ...perhaps leading to treason. I think Senator Sessions lied at his confirmation hearing....how clever 'I don't recall'. None of us knows what Mueller knows....and there's a chance we'll never know and that's a very scary proposition with so much on the line now...like democracy.


LeafReport 68M
2202 posts
1/13/2019 6:12 pm

Go Chiefs!


jiminycricket1 69M
11015 posts
1/14/2019 5:16 am

    Quoting LeafReport:
    Bibi is the ringleader here Cricket....
Okay leaf.

When based on the evidence of what's happening....You are exposing yourself... to what you want it to be.. instead of what it is..

A couple of things.

First Trump has been Trump..Longer that Bibi's been Bibi and Jared's been Jared.

What you consider and oppose as influence.. must have positive results for your opposition.
So let me ask.. Moving the Embassy to Jerusalem..I opposed for the negative results. In your determining influence, You need to consider the positive results of the person doing the influence. I just don't see it..for Israel
What I see is the negative results. that would be positive for someone else..
For example Russia or Saudi Arabia. how it increase their influence instead of Israel's.
I'm not AGAINST the move of the embassy to Jerusalem... because it helps Israel..
I'm not against the move to Jerusalem.... because it help US
I'm against the move to Jerusalem.. because of the chaos, division, partisanship, and instability it causes.
Seems I have already concluded....... who in fact that helps?
Who has that goal..?


jiminycricket1 69M
11015 posts
1/14/2019 5:45 am

Your negativism towards Israel..... can't go two or three different ways.

So You too are a conspiracy theorist?

Because the ONLY way.... what you say makes any sense... is if Israel and Russia are in Cahoots.. So say it.... You wouldn't put that past Israel.. say it.....

So go ahead.. jump on that one.. believe in that one.......against any evidence.. Just to Prove yourself right....... Just to make what you want.. What it is.
Then tell me.... how different you are than Trump and his supporters?


jiminycricket1 69M
11015 posts
1/14/2019 6:06 am

I don't change my thoughts.... because of who is the actor.. I don't care..
All I care about is MY consistency in thoughts.. Just mine.. Just my view of the truth, and how consistent others are in determining their view of the truth.

It my measuring stick of the truth.....The truth can't be inconsistent...

I don't question the facts.....I question my consistency in thinking about those facts.

I'm only wrong.... if the facts are wrong....I try to make my truth and the consistency of that... NEVER WRONG. Once I understand the facts are wrong.. it changes my conclusion of what is the truth.. but it Never changes my consistency in thinking of how I think about the truth.?


LeafReport 68M
2202 posts
1/14/2019 6:54 am

    Quoting  :

In 2005, he was convicted of illegal campaign contributions, tax evasion, and witness tampering, and served time in federal prison. After his release, he resumed his career in real estate.


Maisie2013 68F
19152 posts
1/14/2019 7:04 am

You and Leaf need to get a room.


LeafReport 68M
2202 posts
1/14/2019 7:34 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    Your negativism towards Israel..... can't go two or three different ways.

    So You too are a conspiracy theorist?

    Because the ONLY way.... what you say makes any sense... is if Israel and Russia are in Cahoots.. So say it.... You wouldn't put that past Israel.. say it.....

    So go ahead.. jump on that one.. believe in that one.......against any evidence.. Just to Prove yourself right....... Just to make what you want.. What it is.
    Then tell me.... how different you are than Trump and his supporters?
The move of the embassy was to cover-up the power play Cricket. It was designed to inflame. Bibi wants that war and Trump was incredibly stupid to fall for a con. This is what happens when you listen to people like Bolton and Flynn and you only see credibility, and not the insanity. There's a reason neither could achieve senate confirmation Cricket. Let that sink in for a moment. They had to sneak those guys into the power structure....and it has now backfired spectacularly. Bibi is out of options here. There is zero chance that Bibi will ever again be able to make a direct appeal to the country in the House chamber...ZERO ZERO ZERO. These are NOT intelligent people here. It has nothing to do with what I want....it's what is right before us here. Bibi's government is also failing, and he too found trouble, trying to manipulate the Israeli media himself. Where do you think Trump got that idea? LOL

Bibi can't arrange to rig the American election. But it would be interesting to research what he was saying during the Clinton years when he was out of power. Bibi can't broker a Trump Tower in Moscow either. As long as someone kills Iranian militants in Syria Bibi doesn't care who it is...and as long as they don't have to pay for it. Israel didn't worry about Syria for 40 years...they knew Assad wouldn't attack them. But they weren't going to take him out because the alternative wouldn't present the same sort of probability. American thirst for action in Syria was dead on arrival and they knew it. Nobody wants a piece of that chaos. Syria has been a distraction for awhile now....or I should say an annoyance for a lot of nations. But nobody wants Iranian militants in there, and that includes Russia. Israel nurtured the Trump Russia relationship, through Jared, and has just been standing by watching it all unfold...waiting for their war. Israel's interests are for Israel. They don't give a crap about anybody but themselves....and as 40 years testifies...they will do anything to grab land....regardless of United States policy and UN resolutions, and they will do anything to get that war. America has lost TRILLIONS of dollars in the Middle East quagmire. It is not in America's interests to give blanket deference to that government.


LeafReport 68M
2202 posts
1/14/2019 7:41 am

Cricket...Israel isn't going to agree to a 2 state solution...this was the policy advocated by Hillary Clinton...who was not going to abandon Palestinian Christians who have had their land stolen by Bibi's government. Do you really think Trump cares about that...land theft...when he's willing to steal land for an Israeli type wall from Texas ranchers? Bibi has known Jared's family for decades...and only a lie detector test would convince me he didn't know about Trump Tower Moscow.


jiminycricket1 69M
11015 posts
1/14/2019 8:39 am

    Quoting LeafReport:
    Cricket...Israel isn't going to agree to a 2 state solution...this was the policy advocated by Hillary Clinton...who was not going to abandon Palestinian Christians who have had their land stolen by Bibi's government. Do you really think Trump cares about that...land theft...when he's willing to steal land for an Israeli type wall from Texas ranchers? Bibi has known Jared's family for decades...and only a lie detector test would convince me he didn't know about Trump Tower Moscow.
Well.. you missed my point.. and just like maisie.. you keep talking and all you're doing is proving my point...
It's just not reasonable... to not connect the two.. Russia and Israel.

Your using facts and creating a fantasy....without the conspiracy between Russia and Israel.. it makes no sense.

You are lacking consistency. In your truth
Let me ask who's worse.. Russia or Israel?

So...the Israeli conspiracy goes to ALL President.. hasn't changed one iota..Their taking advantage of Trump. Is what they shouldn't do? That what's happened is what NO other President would have done? That Israel is compromising Trump?

Now tell me Who you are condemning.. Trump or Israel
Now with Russia.... who are you condemning....Russia or Trump?

Where is the fricken consistency?


Is it what you WANT to see ..or what's really happening?


jiminycricket1 69M
11015 posts
1/14/2019 9:04 am

    Quoting LeafReport:
    Cricket...Israel isn't going to agree to a 2 state solution...this was the policy advocated by Hillary Clinton...who was not going to abandon Palestinian Christians who have had their land stolen by Bibi's government. Do you really think Trump cares about that...land theft...when he's willing to steal land for an Israeli type wall from Texas ranchers? Bibi has known Jared's family for decades...and only a lie detector test would convince me he didn't know about Trump Tower Moscow.
Sorry Leaf..... but WTF?

My agreement with you.... is always the truth.. and you challenge only the part you disagree with.. which actually ....I appreciate
But my disagreement with you...... Is a Lie? and you don't challenge the part you disagreement or accept ANY agreement to it..

I know what I am talking about when I agree...... and I am mistaken, when I don't agree.. Like agreement has anything to with it ... You want to regurgitate and not answer my questions when it suits you..

It doesn't matter to me ....if I think you thoughts about Israel. are totally off the wall.. and Prejudiced.... You COULD BE RIGHT......If you were consistent...., about the way I say things, and the way you hear things.. You make assumptions. that don't make sense.. Sounds like someone else here..

Like maisie says.. but it's ...Maybe you and her.. that need to get a room.

You.... whether you agree with me or not..It's not the choice..
I WILL not pick and choose who I believe is telling the truth.

Your Lying to yourself is no different than maisie lying to herself.
so maybe you both need to get a "LIE" down.


jiminycricket1 69M
11015 posts
1/14/2019 9:26 am

You may think... that I make assessment of the truth..with Rouhani, Mohammad bin Salman, Kim Jong-un....And Bibi...
You're wrong .. I have no reason to....their consistency, and my disagreement does NOT challenge their truth...

I challenge Putin's and Trump's truth.. Because I have reason to..


LeafReport 68M
2202 posts
1/14/2019 9:41 am

Hey Cricket...oh you don't have to believe me...none of us knows what Mueller knows...I'm just speculating about a conspiracy and there is already evidence of it. But will have to wait until the congressional committees weigh in too...and they've already implied as much and now its very clear that Nunes has attempted to cover-up as well by denying subpoena requests. One cannot ignore all that activity. Trust me...I'm about as far from thinking like Maisie as you can get. It doesn't do any good to refuse to think about something you do not understand...that's lying to yourself my friend. LOL

Go Chiefs


LeafReport 68M
2202 posts
1/14/2019 12:27 pm

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    You may think... that I make assessment of the truth..with Rouhani, Mohammad bin Salman, Kim Jong-un....And Bibi...
    You're wrong .. I have no reason to....their consistency, and my disagreement does NOT challenge their truth...

    I challenge Putin's and Trump's truth.. Because I have reason to..
I think one has to contemplate conspiracy here for several reasons. It's not just Trump's refusal to criticize Putin or the decision to fire Comey. Trump thought his con would actually sell. That is truly astonishing. But what worried me from the beginning was Jared's inability to get clearances, and many other Trump associates too. Then there was entertaining the Russian Ambassador in the Oval Office alone with a Russian photographer. How could you not raise eyebrows. That doesn't feel like a simple gaffe...it feels more like an act of 'obedience'. Why Flynn stuck around for weeks after Yates' warning is also strange. And the tweets have been even worse. Everyone in all this has their own agenda and they are all using each other to advance it and they are all involved in their own cover-ups too. Foreign policy is not a game for the amateur.


jiminycricket1 69M
11015 posts
1/14/2019 1:27 pm

    Quoting LeafReport:
    Hey Cricket...oh you don't have to believe me...none of us knows what Mueller knows...I'm just speculating about a conspiracy and there is already evidence of it. But will have to wait until the congressional committees weigh in too...and they've already implied as much and now its very clear that Nunes has attempted to cover-up as well by denying subpoena requests. One cannot ignore all that activity. Trust me...I'm about as far from thinking like Maisie as you can get. It doesn't do any good to refuse to think about something you do not understand...that's lying to yourself my friend. LOL

    Go Chiefs
okay..

my comments to you having nothing to with Trump and Russia.. it has to do with Trump and Israel..

Your thinking about Israel is the same as maisie thinking about YOU,. and the DEEP STATE, and liberals. It's based on assumptions..irrational conclusion from facts. and a lack of understanding of motivation...maisie see her opinions of the truth as what she wants to see.. not what the factual information rationally implies.


LeafReport 68M
2202 posts
1/15/2019 4:30 pm

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    okay..

    my comments to you having nothing to with Trump and Russia.. it has to do with Trump and Israel..

    Your thinking about Israel is the same as maisie thinking about YOU,. and the DEEP STATE, and liberals. It's based on assumptions..irrational conclusion from facts. and a lack of understanding of motivation...maisie see her opinions of the truth as what she wants to see.. not what the factual information rationally implies.
Well ok...but that's absurd in my view. Much of America is grossly misinformed about U.S. Israeli relations. Heck, presidents have been grossly misinformed about this relationship. The only one that wasn't conned was George HW Bush in fact. I enjoy our debates, but I do have to say you are clueless in any characterization of how I might see something and Maisie might see something. But, you can think anyway you wish.

Go Chiefs!


sparkleflit 72F
5056 posts
1/15/2019 7:28 pm

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    You and Leaf need to get a room.
Like Liszt and Hiram?.........who are probably in the back room as we speak, giving each other bourbon enemas.......


CarolinaPanthera 58F
3230 posts
1/15/2019 8:38 pm

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    Like Liszt and Hiram?.........who are probably in the back room as we speak, giving each other bourbon enemas.......


jiminycricket1 69M
11015 posts
1/16/2019 10:46 am

    Quoting LeafReport:
    Well ok...but that's absurd in my view. Much of America is grossly misinformed about U.S. Israeli relations. Heck, presidents have been grossly misinformed about this relationship. The only one that wasn't conned was George HW Bush in fact. I enjoy our debates, but I do have to say you are clueless in any characterization of how I might see something and Maisie might see something. But, you can think anyway you wish.

    Go Chiefs!
"Well ok...but that's absurd in my view. Much of America is grossly misinformed about U.S. Israeli relations. Heck, presidents have been grossly misinformed about this relationship."

Read it and weep...

Tell me that's the way you see it...... And I will tell you that's the way maisie sees Liberals.. It all one big conspiracy...."grossly misinformed"? I'm am "grossly misinformed" ... and Presidents are "grossly misinformed"??
"grossly misinformed" Makes absolutely no sense....grossly misinformed means conspiracy to "grossly misinform" ...People are NEVER "grossly misinformed" on their own
Of course... you and maisie aren't EXACTLY the same thing.. But you've never said anything before that justifies the HOW maisie thinks..
You need to stop thinking in terms of right or wrong and start thinking in terms of logic.